Kirk Strobeck, Sr. Software Engineering Manager at General Motors

Speaker 0: Mhmm. Great. No. That's okay. Let me let let me see if I got any more volume here.

Yeah. I think that's good enough. I'm in Beaverton, Oregon. Yeah. Yeah.

I I think I updated the, the page just a little bit. Just put in some some, but it's it's generally all the same. Yeah. My name is Kirk Strobeck. I am here, in Beaverton, Oregon.

Been working remotely for, a while. I had a a little, in person stint, but for the most part, I'd say, for what is it? 7, 8 years, I've been remote. So it's kinda been, the, the professional lifestyle. I've been in a number of companies.

Currently, I'm a senior software engineering manager at General Motors. And I did just wanna mention for for this podcast that, my opinions are my own, and they don't reflect that of my employer. I do. Yeah. And so, wanted to to mention that at some point, which is tipsend.app.

That's tipsend.app. And so that's where you get paid for your feedback. So, more to come on that, but it's, it's pretty exciting to, have that, get some headway. Absolutely. So, I've always been a confident person, and it was funny because at some point, I was, I I distinctly remember talking to a friend, and I was trying to convince them about something, I think, and IIII believed in myself probably 50%.

You know? So as I'm as I'm talking to them, I'm trying to convince them of this thing, and I'm just like, yeah. But, you know, internally, I'm like, yeah. But I only believe in this, you know, 50%. You know?

So and then I got to thinking, the maximum that that my friend can believe in my thing that I'm trying to convince him of is a 100%. Right? And if we take his 100% and and you take the filter of my 50%, the most it can get through is 50%. Right? And then I I did this thought exercise of, okay, I need to actually believe in myself a 100% and not not have this, like, holding back, this cautious, this everything is couched or or guarded or something.

I I need to be a little bit more flat. Right? And I think that this comes from, I think a lot of folks that are in tech, started out as enablers. That's what I really was as a kid, was I was kind of the enabler. So, you know, the speakers weren't working.

I was the 1 who could figure it out. You know, something wasn't wasn't functioning. I was the 1 that could help make that happen. So I was not the person who was at the front or the person who was making things happen, as far as, you know, what was seen. It was more like I was in the background.

And I kinda felt like I'm I'm good in the background. And I didn't necessarily wanna be in the background. Like, I'm a I'm a person that can, you know, have a good conversation, etcetera. But it just kinda seemed like where I was supposed to be is kind of more of a background supporting. But it turned out that, like, I would support people, you know, and I was kinda far off.

And then it more and more over the course of my career, I I would support people. I'd be so close as the supporting role that at some point, it was just like, okay. I'll I'll just be that guy, you know, because there's not a good, you know, person to support or or because I'm I'm capable of also being both. And so, I thought that that was kind of interesting, but that really, you know, came from that point of, you gotta believe in yourself a 100%. And it's funny because, it's just something to check yourself on.

You know, to be like, do I actually, like, believe in myself a 100%? And it doesn't mean that you're saying, hey. I can do things that I'm I'm not otherwise capable of. Right? Like, I'm I'm not saying I'm the best coder or something.

You know? It's it's more about just, you are calibrating against reality, you know, and so you're you're focused on that. You're not you're not kidding anybody. You're not kidding yourself, but you're also not holding anything back. Yeah.

I mean, I think this goes into something that we we noted for for a little bit later on, but, it really goes into this concept of having no regrets. So, the, and this is, something that I learned kind of the hard way, with, you know, having some regrets and then and then really challenging myself on, like, what are these regrets? You know? How how does this, what are these things? And then when I kinda broke it down it's kinda funny as as engineers, we can break things down, and the the problem actually disappears when you challenge it a little bit.

And so what a what a regret is is something where you say, you know, if I know what I knew if I know if I knew then what I know now, I would have done something different. You say, okay. Cool. So what does that mean? You you wanna just introduce time travel into that equation there, and then it's like and then you say, okay.

No. No. I won't introduce time travel. Screw that. Let's just say if if I was if I was in their shoes, here's what I would have done.

And you say, no. You were in your shoes. You were you. Like, there was nobody else. And so all you can do is say, okay.

So if I don't know why I made that choice, then there's reasons I can't recall as to why I made that choice. Maybe there were pressures, maybe it was something emotional, maybe whatever. Any number of different reasons why you made that choice. And so that's that's where the regret comes in. But it's just interesting.

If you break it down, it it actually just disappears. And so that's what I encourage folks to do is just really revisit that and say, does does this thing actually exist? Is this really what this is? When you break it down, when you when you kind of destroy it in that way, then what you'll see is that the, you were asking, you know, how do you maintain that confidence? Well, you maintain that confidence by knowing I'm just gonna bring my a game every day in everything that I do.

Even if I'm tired, I'm gonna bring my tired a game. You know? Like, I'm I'm gonna be engaged. I'm gonna be present. But if you know that you're bringing your best, every day and everything that you do, then you you can't there's nothing more to do.

Right? And when you do that, then absolutely you can't believe in yourself because you you you're there. You're present. You're doing it. Right.

Right. Mhmm. Right. Right. Sure.

Mhmm. Your question sounds a little bit funny if I break it down. It sounds a little bit like some you know, other people don't make mistakes. You know, we were the ones who were making mistakes. I I would say that everybody's making mistakes all the time.

And so, really, that's, it's gonna come down to a mentality kind of thing. Right? How do you handle the mistakes that you make in whatever category that may be, whether it's in tech or outside of tech? But I I really think that, you just need to think of things as an iterative approach, right, where you're just getting better and better, and also, need to approach things where where you say this is this is not the end. Right?

You know, there's there's another day. There's another try at this, that the, that the pawns can get bigger and bigger and bigger. You know, the things that you that you, like, there's some funny stories that I'll I'll tell my wife, for example, that I'm looking back on. And and then I look back on it today, and I'm just like, I I most of those people, I don't even know anymore, and also 0 people would remember that except for me. Right?

And so I I think that it's just, you know, being out there and and making those mistakes in whatever category it is. If you just have this, mindset of this is an iteration. This is me learning. You know, that's what I tell my daughter, for example. I I just say, how do you get good at this?

How do you get good at anything? And she just, you know, she says, practice. Right? We just we boil it down to that 1 word. And the other thing we do is, you know, if she's ever, you know, doing something, maybe she gets a good time and a a running or, you know, something like that.

III always ask her, who are you competing against? You know? And and there's, you know, 1 right answer, which is myself. Right? Because that's that's who I want her competing against, is only to be a better version of herself.

Mhmm. Nobody's coming to mind in that regard. I would say there's people that took a chance on me in a lot of different ways. Right? Giving me opportunities and, relying on me for things, coaching me along the way.

But I haven't really heard that message specifically about confidence, and about being confident. It it really has has been more of just here's, here's an opportunity. How are you gonna do with that opportunity? And then circling back about how do you think that went. Right?

That's that's probably been more of the theme of what I would say the the leaders that I've had, that I've worked with over the years. Mhmm. Mhmm. Absolutely. So, I'll I'll mention somebody, that doesn't know I'm mentioning them, but, it'll be a fun shout out.

But, there's, someone who's named Steven Tay on on LinkedIn. I think if you look at his LinkedIn profile and you watch his journey, you can really see, like, the perfect model for how to do this. He was actually at Vercel, and he was working on a side project, and that side project, is Dubb. And then he actually turned Dubb into a company, and now he's going forward with that. But just seeing his posts has been a real encouragement into, what that can look like and then I think a real model if anybody's ever looking for that.

Really where this fundamentally came from for me was years ago reading the 4 hour work week, which, I definitely recommend that book. And, 1 of the things he talks about in there is your day job should be the thing that makes you money, you know, and you're you follow your passions elsewhere. You know? Do your side project elsewhere. And I I really took that to heart.

So I've always had kind of an a game, b game, kind of thing where, it's like I'm going I I like to call the day job a a ratchet problem, because it's really, you know, kinda like a a winch or or a ratchet, right, where you're each year, you know, just try to try to get, more responsibility, more earnings, more impact, you know, more of, like, all the things. And so, that's that's the the ratchet aspect of it is is is how do you, continue to grow in your career path? But then also, can you grow your side thing as well? Can you can you grow your passion as well? And so, what I've you know, the, Mike Rowe of dirty jobs, he he has a great video that says don't follow your passion.

I'm always sending that that video to folks too because what he talks about is, like, you know, they're he's talking about these dirty jobs that are disgusting, you know, like cleaning out, you know, sanitation systems and things. And then he's talking about these are the millionaire next door kind of cases where, these folks are just, pulling in cash because they're, they're they're looking at they're doing the analysis of of what needs to get done, and they're not saying what do I wanna do. And that's really the the best way to think about it is the the the day job is what what needs to get done. And then outside of that, it's it's what do what do I wanna work on? What do I wanna do?

And so, it's it's about balancing those. 1 other thing I'll mention there, especially in this crazy job market, is that the this is a a big way of how I approach getting hired as well with any opportunity is I I look at it more as a dating thing where it's it's about, you know, kind of the bumble kind of thing to a degree. Right? I'm gonna show that I'm interested in you. And if you're interested in me, like, let's have that conversation.

But if if I'm only interested in you, that's not very helpful. Right? So so I'll hear from some people. You know, sometimes they'll they'll reach out to me and they'll say, you know, what are things like at that company? I'm thinking of joining that company.

I'd say, really? Wow that company. I'd say, really? Wow. You've got a, you know, a a very confident path there that you're just, you know, going to join the company.

And it's a it's a, like, you should be applying everywhere you think there's a even a slightest possibility that you might be a fit. Right? And then from all of those places, hear back from some of them. And then those are the ones that you're engaging with because there's a there's a 2 way street there. Not to say people shouldn't target companies and they shouldn't have goals, just to say that there, there's a, an aspect of this where, I guess, you could say serendipity is involved, grit is involved, you know, all those types of aspects.

Mhmm. Mhmm. Yeah. I'm a I'm a big fan of, really just trying to focus on the context that you find yourself and then, kinda let the other stuff just happen. So, you know, I I where I am in a job right now, for example, is is is part of that.

Right? I I was focused on, let me get into a great context and then, and this is the same as it's been for, you know, my prior positions as well. It's like I'm just gonna focus on getting a great context, and then, it doesn't matter what they ask of me really. I'm gonna do it. Right?

And I'm gonna deliver on that and 5 other things they don't know they need. Right? So it's it's really about how can you, deliver on the main thing and then also, get hungry for for all the other things. So so 1 of the things that I I mentioned to to my directs often is this concept of you need to have things that bother you. You need to you need to manufacture things that bother you.

So, folks, for example, that are, you know, sitting back, relax, nothing's gonna bother them. You can't really go up to them and say, you know, hey. This, this this the title of this is is the wrong font or something. You know, they're gonna say, whatever, man. You know?

Like, it it doesn't really matter and stuff. It's like that. That person's gonna, you know, maybe have a nice day, but they're not really gonna change the world. They're not really gonna change the product or or whatever it may be. So I I try to to tell folks you have to, you have to take the opposite, and you have to you should be content.

Right? I'm not saying you should be stressed out of your mind. You should lose sleep or anything like that. I'm a huge believer in great sleep. But what you should do is try to manufacture this, this ire, this you know, you know, I I always I always get these, like, medieval kind of imagery in my head, you know, kinda like, you know, how are you how are you approaching this battle?

You know, how do you how do you get this, this energy built up to say, this we shouldn't be doing things this way. We should be doing things that way and and make that your issue. And then, when you have those kind of issues, you should have those at each level. Right? So you should have those issues for, like, here's what I'm doing for our, you know, our group.

Here's what I'm doing for our team. Here's what I'm doing for our area, and and, you know, here's what I wanna do for the whole company, you know, and just have those those those initiatives at every level. And it it maybe doesn't mean you can do anything more than just write up an authoritative document on what your vision is for a thing, but even that can be super effective. That's 1 of the ways that I I gain a lot of traction is actually just by writing authoritative docs that that spell out exactly what I think a vision is for a thing. And then there's actually really good cheat codes here too, which is that you say, these are my own personal thoughts.

So you make it completely nonofficial. And then, you know, nobody can get concerned with with any aspect of it. They they all they can do is read the content because, you know, you're not saying anything official. And so then you you put out your vision, and then you can, circulate that for endorsement. And as you get that, you you get more people behind your your thoughts, your initiative, your way of thinking.

You get looped into those conversations, etcetera. It just kinda spirals. And you I'll add on 1 more point because I'm I'm kind of on a roll now. I I know you guys have questions but the, all I was gonna say is that this is a, having those types of initiatives, especially the ones that are, like, at a company level kind of thing. Those are the things that are very helpful to have in your pocket for when you're having these higher level conversations with, you know, upper levels.

Right? So I highly encourage folks to reach out to levels, you know, as high up as you can get. And and if somebody looks interesting to you, reach out to them. Set up a meeting with them. Have a conversation.

They they won't bite. I promise. And, the the funny thing, though, is you need you kinda need to have something to say. Right? It's good to do an intro, but then you also wanna have something to say.

And and that's where having that issue, having something bug you and and developing that and then finding a a way that that, you know, could be solved or addressed, that's a really great piece of content for having those executive level conversations. Mhmm. So my current passion project, tipsend, is, it's something, like I said, where we we compensate you for your feedback. And, basically, it's been something I've been brewing for a long time, and it's, I I don't wanna go into all the details about it because I I'm trying to still figure out the right framing for it, the right way to kinda roll it out and communicate it. But having folks go to sign up at at tipsend.app is great, because those will be the first folks in line to get the the info.

The, the the main thing is we've, we've solved some problems that are pretty, hard to solve. And so, it's it's it will fundamentally change the way that feedback works, and I think it could be, you know, as big as a Google or a Facebook. It definitely is in in its in its concept, in its, its tangential, what would it what's the right way to put it? Basically, the value it can offer in so many different domains. It's it's pretty funny when I when I have a conversation with somebody, and they they get it, then I just keep going.

And they and they get it and they keep going, and and it's funny. They're they're they at some point, they just they kinda go, okay. Like, I I you've just created a whole new world here, and it's it's a it's a bit in that that kinda level. And, I know that's a big that's a tall order. It'll be iteratively, getting there, but, I'm excited about, rolling that out, sometime in in these upcoming months.

But, again, yeah, it's it's just a side project. It's not meant to, take over everything. If if it did take over everything, that would be interesting. But the point is, if I can build it on the side, then I should be able to run it on the side too. So it's it's it's kinda 1 of those things that I I never I never understood this concept of let me put my family in jeopardy and and all these things to to just bail on my day job and put all that pressure on a start up.

And, again, that pressure doesn't help your start up. It just makes you make bad choices because you need to make choices to to make the thing, like, make money. This is why, like, taking on investors can be really tricky and is not necessarily the avenue that I'm looking into, because that just means that there's a lot of pressure to turn it into a money making thing right away where, it might not be ready for that, or it might need to mature in different ways and have a longer, road map. So, it's it's kinda interesting. But to to answer your question, the, oh, sorry.

Go ahead, Pedro. Yeah. Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah.

Right. That's all. Yep. Mhmm. Oh, yeah.

Great question. So I I come I feel like I come up with a business idea every day, and you guys probably do too. But this is, completely unrelated to Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.

Yeah. I think the first thing that happened for me like that was when I was in elementary well, maybe it was middle school or high school thinking about, spinner rims, I think. And I and I saw those, and I was like, oh my god. Yeah. Right.

Change the world. No. This has nothing to do with, any of my day jobs. It was a completely isolated idea, from that. But, the, you know, I'll give you an example of an idea, a separate idea that is that was also, unrelated.

Well, actually, you know, we don't need to go into that. I I don't wanna spend the time talking about a business an idea that I'm not doing. Yeah. It's it only I the only reason I was gonna mention is because I I think it solves the homeless problem, to a degree, and, that's that's why it was kinda interesting. Exactly.

Yes. Yeah. And and, John, to answer your your actual question, which was, you know, did this has this helped me with my, job? Absolutely. So this is, this is just 1 project of a number of of projects I've done over time.

You know, a number of those have not gone anywhere, but it's been something where I'll I'll have an idea and I'll wanna dig into it more, and so I'll wanna, you know, spike it. But the day job is for the day job. And, you know, maybe there's a spike that is related, but the spike is, not supposed to be this robust. You're not supposed to go off in this, you know, this avenue or that avenue. So, absolutely, I highly encourage folks to, tinker around on the side.

You know, even if you don't plan to ship anything big or or build anything big, if you just are like, can I solve can I, you know, figure out somebody who has a problem, and then can I solve their problem with code? Right? Can I solve their problem by shipping something? Can I even just solve my own problem by shipping something? You know?

There's there's, it's so easy too with generative AI. Like, you're aren't, yeah. Generative AI, like you were talking about, Pedro, the, you can, really quickly just say, hey. Write this thing in node for me. And, also, you should get you should get good at at using, prompts.

Prompts are, it's kinda tricky to learn how to talk to the machine. It it doesn't, you know, come super easily. But I can tell you the, tinkering around on the side is the is the fastest way to to move up in a company, I believe, because you get to, learn things that you can't learn on the job. But you get to learn things that could be helpful for the job. So generative I generative a say that 10 times fast, 3 times fast, whatever.

Generative AI, you go there you go. AI. I'm just gonna stick with that. So the, that's an a perfect example of what you're talking about, John, where I, I just wanted to fiddle around with it. You know?

I I'm like, oh, you got a API. This is awesome. You know? So messed around with the open AI API and, kinda learned how that works. And and then we actually had a problem at my prior company that, involved us tackling this problem with a lot of scale.

And, it was going to mean, like, 100 of hours of people's time. And I was like, I think we can do this with AI. And and I, you know, go from being that guy that has nothing to do with AI to being, you know, an AI contact, you know, and then somebody that can add some add some value with AI, and and we were able to solve our problem, which was pretty great. But, again, I couldn't even start or have that conversation if I hadn't been fiddling around with it in my spare time just just saying how does this work. Mhmm.

Well, 1 thing that I would say is, listen listen to Huberman. Right? Huberman's a big, impact on my life lately as far as, all of that goes, and the other people he talks to, which are, like, Peter Attia and, a big fan of is his name really spacing me right now? That's crazy. Okay.

Yeah. Insert name here. Yeah. I guess that's proposed. Right.

Wow. That's awful. Anyway, the, it it it's important because it's it's good for your health, number 1. Right? We need to be we're we're actually people.

You know? We we need to check-in and be like, okay. We're not robots. We're we're people. And so exactly.

Exactly. And the, yeah, and there's there's a great book about the the mind body connection. I I forget the name of it, but it's it's literally about how when you exercise, your brain literally, like, expands, you know, and is ready to absorb more information. And, you know, I'm sure that it's the vice versa and and all of that is combined. The 1 thing that was pretty interesting was actually diving into supplements a bit.

Wasn't into supplements in any way, shape, or form, but I I would advocate that folks, learn about supplementation. And just just dive into that space because you'll learn a lot about, you know, what should I be adding, what should I not be adding. You know? Basically, you get it forces it's a forcing function for, am I choosing to naturally do this, or am I choosing to, you know, help support my body in this way or that way? You know, a a perfect example there is, like, you know, fish oil will will help in a lot of different ways.

You know? And Rhonda Patrick goes into a lot of that. The reason why I advocate the the exercise thing is is really just because the people that I've found to be successful exercise. And so that it's kinda like you you can't really, you can't really it's just a data point that you'll just learn from talking to people. Successful people exercise.

Successful people also read. And so another data point you can't really take away. So, if you take those 2 things, then it's like, okay. I maybe I don't know my way around working out well or my I don't know my way around reading well, but I should probably just adopt these things to to get somewhere. And the reason why I mentioned audiobooks, I'm not saying you have to use audiobooks, but I've found them to be helpful because I can combine the 2.

So I I think a a good way to go, and this is what I try to do. I skip a lot of days, but, I try to do just an hour of exercise a day. So, and that can either be lifting or running. So if I'm running, it's gonna be 6 miles. If I'm lifting, it's going to be, with my app right now, I think it's around £12, 000 moved.

I use FitBod. It's a pretty nice app. But the, the point is with audiobooks, first off, you're sometimes hearing from the author themselves, which is fun to hear their the way that they're speaking it. And then also you can speed it up as much as you want. So some books are 1 and a half speed.

Some books are 2 speed. Depends on how fast they're they're reading. But then it lets you cruise through a book pretty quick. And, there's no better question. You know, again, I'm talking about executive level, you know, questions and conversations because I think that those are it's an area that not a lot of people focus on.

But to have those conversations, 1 of the best things you can ask, like, if you if you're meeting, you know, the CEO, almost the best question you can always ask is any any books you're reading or any books you recommend. Right? Because a lot of people don't realize this, but it's it's effectively you sitting down with them and talking to them for hours. Because they're saying this is somebody who I sat with, and and they let them talk to me for hours, which is the author of the book. And so it's kinda like putting yourself in the same room as them, having those same you know, listening to that that same person go through all that.

And so, I found that to be a really great starting point for, a lot of, relationships, right, which is like, what are you reading? You know, any any recommendations? Because, you know, people naturally go into why they're reading what they're reading, etcetera. I've gotten a few I I definitely put up a list, you know, because we chatted about it. I can I can spit fire those?

Is is that a good way, or you want me to just talk a little bit? Yeah. Right now, I'm reading never split the difference by Chris Voss. So, yeah, I've, I've seen him on the Huberman podcast, and I've I've seen him, I've seen his stuff elsewhere, and so excited to to dig in more into, the way that he thinks. A couple others, I I put in here in this list, Alex Hormozi, anything by him, really.

His books are great. Anything by the 37 signals team is great. Jason Fried and David Hanmire Hansen. There's a, yeah, a lot of good books. You know, if you if you can focus on books that that talk about feedback, like thanks for the feedback, and crucial conversations, crucial accountability, Anything that, really has you thinking hard about empathy and communication is gonna be super helpful.

Also, things that kinda get me pretty excited are are books like Bold, by pre Peter, diamond diamond diamond is diamond is yeah. And, so the you know, I think that, and and some other books that, get me pretty excited are, the selfish gene, something deeply hidden by Sean Carroll, superintelligence by Nick Bostrom. But yeah. And then on the health side, Outlive by Peter Attia is a fantastic book. Yeah.

He's he's he's he's got some muscles for sure. I'd say it's not something that I talk about so much personally. I think that, you know, books books, I guess, just don't come up as much in the personal context. Sometimes they come up, but I I think usually, you know, we're talking about whatever's relevant. You know, if it's family, you know, it's the the barbecue.

If it's, you know, friends, it's it's maybe something else. So, I I found it, more to be a bit of my personal journey and then, yeah, kind of on the professional side as well. Mhmm. Yeah. So main way to read about or to learn about objectivism, this is a philosophy by Ayn Rand, and top book there that I'd recommend is the virtue of selfishness.

I got into objectivism by reading, what was it called? Atlas Shrugged, which is pretty interesting. The the philosophy is really it's it's been it's been pretty meaningful for me. I would say it's changed my life in a lot of ways, both personally and professionally. The main thing is that, it challenges you to, look at things objectively.

Right? And it sounds, pretty simple, but some of the ways that that that took shape is, like, calibrating against reality is a big part of it. And and that flows right back into that that feedback stuff too, which is if, I think that as anybody would be, you know, you're scared of feedback by default. But, you know, really adopting objectivism has me craving feedback, for example. That's that's 1 way it's really impacted my professional life.

So, and and that's because I wanna calibrate against reality. I don't wanna tell myself a false story in my head. I I wanna make sure that what I'm thinking is what reality is. And it's like, what's the best way to get a sense of reality is to, you know, have a sensor that's telling you that the status, you know, the temperature, the whatever. Well, guess what?

Everybody who's around you that you interact with is that sensor. And the the only way to get a read off that sensor is to actually pull that opinion out of them. And so, I'm a big fan of keeping my feedback barriers as low as possible so that way, feedback can you know, 2 way feedback can flow, easily. And I've found that to be, really big, as far as there's no surprises when you when you operate that way, because any anything that comes up, a person can tell to you right away, and it's just the tiniest thing. And so, I'm a big fan both as as, you know, as an individual, what I want, and then also as a leader, the way that I like to approach things is to be as much of a no surprises person as possible.

Right? If something happens, it's gonna be because we've been discussing it for a bit. It it's hard to do. I'm not saying I'm perfect at it, but that's that's my goal. I've had, specifically 1 manager, while I was at Google, really operated that way, and I I really appreciated their approach to that.

Mhmm. Mhmm. Right. Mhmm. Right.

Mhmm. Mhmm. Yeah. Absolutely. Making sure that you're not worried about the future is a good thing.

Right? And and and you're you're, dead on with, if you if you know, how things are today. And, again, going back to the no regrets, if you know you're bringing your a game and and there's there's not going to be you're not gonna have future regrets. Right? So okay.

I won't have regrets. I'm going to do my best. I'm giving I'm getting all the evidence that I can objectively. I'm not telling myself some kind of crazy story. Then it really kinda removes a lot of those worries.

A big part of it that too is, Bezos' comment about, reversible versus irreversible choices. 1 1 way versus 2 way doors, I guess, is what he calls it too. That's really impacted my decision making, approach. Right? So that's that's kind of the first level of the decision making I do, which is, as a leader, it's 1 of the ways that I'm I'm, that I found to be the most successful for delegating responsibility is, if it's a 2 if it's a 2 way, then then boom, this is a this is something we can hand down for sure.

Right? Because worst case scenario, you're not gonna do it well, and we can we can back that up. You know? We can try again. And, it doesn't mean the time is free, but it it does mean that that we we don't have to take it, you know, too seriously because, you know and and usually those those things have a way of being blurry.

So you'll get, you know, 80% of the gain, by even going down the wrong path, and and then you can kind of circle back for that last 20% or something. The, the other way that I would say objectivism has really helped is is also understanding incentive structures. That was 1 of the other notes I put down. Additionally, that the, that you you take a a logical approach to all things and and not carve out anywhere in your life where you're being not logical. So not to put too fine of a head on it, but personally, like, religion was 1 of those areas where I I had to carve out.

And I didn't realize it until I was, like, really approaching objectivism, and and I was like, why am I making, like like, I this chair works because I'm sitting on the chair. And, you know, I in my in my job, if I ship the code, it goes in the Internet. You know? And then I was kinda like, well, why am I so why am I making this carve out here where I don't have to see, where logic just doesn't have to apply? I'm just going to have my whole pie chart, say logic, and then this 1 area is a carve out.

It's okay if logic isn't there. So that for me was, you know, kinda took me on a journey too. I I know we won't get into it here, but, that's that's, for me was, really has me in a great place as far as very low complexity, very simple life, very content and very, very peaceful. So, those are those are good things. Yeah.

Yeah. Actually, I'll I'll get more personal. So I, I actually went through a divorce. And, when I went through that divorce, I was, I was under the impression that this is something that was never going to happen to me. Right?

And it it really had me challenge, like, my whole, way of being where I was like, how could this happen? You know, what did I do? And and then just just really digging into all of that, had me really revisit that, regrets point and and try to understand what that does and doesn't mean. And and like I said before, logically, when you just put it together, it just kinda kinda disappears. And when it when I when it disappeared, I was like, woah.

Like, how does everybody not know this? Like, why why are regrets even a thing? Like, how do they even get traction? And and like you've seen in our conversation as I've I've mentioned it, which is funny because I I don't talk about regrets and no regrets lifestyle, you know, with with folks on a regular basis or anything, so it's funny it'd come up this much. Even in our our intro call, I I think it was something, John, that that maybe got got kinda interesting for you.

The, but it's it plays such a role in, like I said, just bringing your a game every day. So it's, it's like the I I think regrets is, like, Pedro, to your point, that that future worry that you haven't even gotten to yet. Right? Like, that's AAA regret is usually like so a regret can't act on the past because the past has happened. The only thing it's operating on is the present, but you don't have, like, a regret right now.

So it's really only acting on the future. Right? You're saying, I don't yeah. I don't I don't wanna make this decision or put myself in this place because I don't wanna have this regret that I'm going to have in the future. And so if you just you just say those don't exist and you just adopt that mindset, you'll you'll find it to be very freeing.

Mhmm. Great question. So I would say that there are, you know, I think in general, there's there's 2 reasons to ever transition anything. And I think that, III don't know if there's anything else. Maybe maybe you guys can inform me.

But, I I'm only aware of 2 things. You're either running, from something or you're running to something. Right? It's that's kind of the way that I I look at it, is really those those 2 kind of things. And so, yeah, the you know, I won't go into all all of my career transitions or or anything, but the, what I can say is, you should be in a place where being being, on the market shouldn't scare you, I think, is 1 aspect of that.

Right? It shouldn't it shouldn't be too much of a worry if it's time to move on to the next place. So I would say that whatever you can do to put that in your control, I think, is a really good thing. Right? So that means keeping your resume up to date, being able being comfortable in interviews, knowing that you've got a certain set of skills and how transferable those skills are, etcetera.

But I would say the, you know, for folks that are in a rough job scenario. Right? And I've I've had probably more than my fair shares of of rough job scenarios, including 1 person that actually got arrested for, some stuff recently. So that was kinda crazy. Not not here where I am, but from a prior job, which I'm not not really looking to not really looking to call them out, but but III can tell you guys about that story later.

But it's just it's just kinda wild. So I I'd say and this kinda goes back to another point that I wanted to chat with you guys about, which is this concept of stuff can happen at a company level or in a team level or something, and and it can be, like, a lot of friction. There can be a lot of chaos, etcetera. But I am a big believer in, you know, be be aware of that. Right?

And like I said, be be prepared for what might happen next or what what the what the future holds, and and have that you know, make sure you're you're good on the open market, that readiness, so that you know, be a prepper in that regard. But the, but the other side of that is while you're there, like, this has been my mantra for a long time is just add value. Right? And, you know, there's never been a time when I've commented that's not in my job description or that's not what I was brought here to do or something. It's it's literally just add value.

Because even if they were asking me to get a cup of coffee, you you know, I I'm I'll do it. And guess what? I'm I'm also going to, you know, give you, you know, that that new website design with your cup of coffee. Right? Like, so it's it's like you're asking me for the coffee.

I'm gonna give you more. Right? And, also, it's gonna be some pretty tasty coffee. Right? Can I can I over perform in in each category?

And and then, over performing doesn't mean that you should say yes to everything, but it does mean that you should, you should learn how to how to appropriately say, you know, to count your language. So that's I'm a big believer in that too. Right? So a lot of things and this is from the book, turn the ship around, is, this I intend to language. So 1 of the key concepts from that book was that you don't have folks, just doing stuff on their own, YOLO, but you've got folks kind of broadcasting publicly their intent.

Right? So in the group, you're, like, saying, you know, I'm gonna do this thing. In the in this case, it was a submarine. I'm gonna turn left. And then people can speak.

I would say, oh, you know, don't don't do that or or, you know, there's another thing, but it it's this I intend to language where you're you're you're not waiting for approval. You're saying I'm going to do this, and it it allows you to move forward. And so I definitely lost my train of thought, but that's the, that's a a part of it. Yeah. I was on the submarine, I guess.

Great question. The, well, 1 special mention for you guys is that I I did work on a a little startup, a little side project, and didn't didn't quite get it to a place where, you know, it could ship and add value. But I was definitely using Directus. I and I I found that separately, you know, from us. You know, you guys reached out to me separately, I believe, as well.

So, but I it was it was neat to have, stumbled on to direct us and seen, what a cool offering that was. And so, you know, in the in the CMS world, it really stood out as as a something different and and something that, for me, was able to add some great value, and let me kinda stand up my concept, and that was in the nutrition space. Actually, I was able to, briefly pitch it to, Huberman's producer, which is kinda interesting. Yeah. But, the, you know, 1 of the notes I had on here was about, scaling.

You know, I think that that's that's a really big thing that I would I would probably wanna share with folks is that, scale with whatever you do. Right? And that usually means, documentation, videos, whatever it may be. But, if you're having these direct messages with people, you're probably doing it wrong. Like everything you do, you should try to do that as much in public as you can and and scale it.

And you can do this on LinkedIn. You can do this, you know, in your, Slack or whatever at your work. But, if you're if you're doing it for 1 person, you know, think of how you could do it for a 100 people. So scale is a is a big part of how you move up as far as I'm concerned in the workforce. Right?

Because, you don't wanna see that person that's solving, like, you know, a couple people's problems. You wanna see that person that with with, their, small actions, they're making huge waves. You know? A a good person to follow for this too online is, Adi Asmani, as far as, LinkedIn goes. He's got great content.

He's always, you know, shipping these books and, like, really changing the world, and and it's like you're 1 dude. You know? But yeah. Right. Yeah.

You just drop your email, and then, we'll we'll get to the next steps. But the so it's kind of the landing page thing right now. But there's, there's a lot of work done on the other side. And then, yeah, following on LinkedIn is probably best. I'm just, in Kirk Strobeck, and then also I'm I'm on x, but not really that that active there.

I appreciate it. I I think if I was to write something, it would be, that I was kind of the 37 signals model, right, where they would they wrote a bunch of articles, and then they just kinda smash those into a book. I think it would be that. So, I and I'm not great at writing articles right now, so I'm probably probably not in the book category yet. But, if I if I get 1 out there, I'll be sure to share it with everyone.

Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you, guys. Appreciate it.